- Welcome to Excogitatoris Forum.
Excogitatoris FORUM - a platform for critical thinkers
Recent posts
#91
Vaccine Coercion / Re: Being sacked for not havin...
Last post by gonzo - 23 Jul 21, 14:25:50It's a gradual erosion of rights. People don't protest all at once because it doesn't initially directly effect them. I expect we won't be able to go shopping or to restaurants without a vaccine pass by Christmas.
#92
Vaccine Coercion / Re: The most intense Propagand...
Last post by gonzo - 23 Jul 21, 14:24:20I'm not sure if you've seen the morning TV show clips, but the propaganda has intensified since. They're talking about compulsory vaccines now for all citizens openly.
#93
Vaccine Coercion / Re: FairWork process for those...
Last post by gonzo - 23 Jul 21, 13:47:03I could pull arguments from my reply to their "show cause" letter.
Perhaps some from:
Perhaps some from:
Quote6. Your demand violates the Consent to Medical Treatment and Palliative Care Act 1995
7. Your expectation that I sign a consent form saying that I agree the vaccine is "completely voluntary" is completely unreasonable.
8. Your expectation that I give consent (a voluntary agreement free from coercion) to something which is not voluntary is completely unreasonable/impossible.
9. Your demand violates Xxxxxxxx's definition of informed consent as defined in Informed Consent.docx:
"Consent must be freely given; not obtained by: Fraud, force, undue influence"
Under definitions:
"Informed Consent: Voluntary agreement given by a person or a responsible proxy (e.g., a parent) for participation in a study, immunization program, or treatment regimen, after being informed of the purpose, methods, procedures, benefits, and risks. The essential criteria of informed consent are that the subject has both knowledge and comprehension, that consent is freely given without duress or undue influence, and that the right of withdrawal from the entity at any time is clearly communicated to the subject."
10. Your demand runs contrary to the Australian Immunisation Handbook (See pictured above- consent form Xxxxxxxx required me to sign), "For consent to be legally valid... It must be given voluntarily in the absence of undue pressure, coercion or manipulation."
11. Your demand violates the UN's Universal Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights which states: "Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be express and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason without disadvantage or prejudice."
12. The Australian Commission on Safety and Quality in Health Care states:
"Informed consent is a person's decision, given voluntarily, to agree to a healthcare treatment, procedure or other intervention that is made" . Your demand removes the possibility to give informed consent.
13. AHPRA's "Good medical practice: a code of conduct for doctors in Australia" states:
"Informed consent is a person's voluntary decision about medical care that is made with knowledge and understanding of the benefits and risks involved" . Your demand removes the possibility of being able to give informed consent.
14. Your demand is contrary to SA Health's Consent to Medical Treatment and Health Care Policy Guideline (4.1.2): "For consent to be valid, it must be voluntary and clear, and the patient consenting must have decision-making capacity. These terms are explained below. Voluntary: the decision to consent or not consent to treatment must not be made due to pressure or coercion."
#94
Vaccine Coercion / FairWork process for those of ...
Last post by gonzo - 23 Jul 21, 13:37:49Some advice given recently was not to try to make the argument for why vaccine mandates are unconstitutional. That at this stage, we need to be concise.
Having read a little more about the constitutional argument (civil conscription), I believe it's a valid route. I've made contact with all possible groups, as everyone is more than willing to suggest I contact such folks. The issue is that these groups are overrun, so we need to be able to lodge our submissions ourselves assuming we won't be getting any specialized advice.
I've only just started filling out the F2 unfair dismissal application. The section in which we're required to give reasons as to why the dismissal is unfair is in my view the only section we really need advice on (especially when referring to the constitution or the Biosecurity Act).
My brain has become stuck in a fog, so I really haven't done much at all. So far simply the following:
Having read a little more about the constitutional argument (civil conscription), I believe it's a valid route. I've made contact with all possible groups, as everyone is more than willing to suggest I contact such folks. The issue is that these groups are overrun, so we need to be able to lodge our submissions ourselves assuming we won't be getting any specialized advice.
I've only just started filling out the F2 unfair dismissal application. The section in which we're required to give reasons as to why the dismissal is unfair is in my view the only section we really need advice on (especially when referring to the constitution or the Biosecurity Act).
My brain has become stuck in a fog, so I really haven't done much at all. So far simply the following:
QuoteI've maintained that it was impossible to give valid, informed consent to a vaccine I'm being coerced into taking. It's unfair and unethical to coerce a person into giving "completely voluntary" consent. Such coercion nullifies the possibility to comply with their demand because a practitioner can't give the vaccination without valid consent.
I believe that the demand that I be vaccinated or face unemployment is unconstitutional. Section 51 (xxiiiA) of the Australian Constitution forbids "any form of civil conscription" in relation to medical and dental services.
For example, in Wong vs Commonwealth of Australia, in respect to civil conscription Justice Kirby stated:
"However, the prohibition on "any form of civil conscription" is designed to protect patients from having the supply of "medical and dental services", otherwise than by private contract, forced upon them without their consent." (127)
"A rare constitutional guarantee: Because of its character as a guarantee or protection, both for the healthcare professionals identified and for the patients affected by the provision of their services, the exclusion of any form of "civil conscription" must be seen as one of the rare instances of an individual guarantee and protection spelt out in the Australian Constitution" (128)
I further believe such demands violate the Privacy Act 1998.
#95
Vaccine Coercion / Re: Chinese practices in Austr...
Last post by Annette990 - 21 Jul 21, 10:37:23On the topic of protest, report that French are making Vaccine Flambe - torching Vacc Centres!
https://rumble.com/vk245h-french-mad-lads-are-burning-down-vaccine-centers.html?mref=6zof&mrefc=2
https://rumble.com/vk245h-french-mad-lads-are-burning-down-vaccine-centers.html?mref=6zof&mrefc=2
#96
Vaccine Coercion / Risk/Benefit of mandatory vacc...
Last post by Excogitatoris - 17 Jul 21, 23:18:08Please (Register &) Login to view the attachment to this post. (The analysis)
or use this LINK
Dear politicians please stop panicking and politicising and do some analysis!
or use this LINK
Dear politicians please stop panicking and politicising and do some analysis!
#97
Vaccine Coercion / Overhaul of COVID-19 Policies
Last post by Excogitatoris - 16 Jul 21, 23:43:35 #98
Vaccine Coercion / Re: Chinese practices in Austr...
Last post by gonzo - 16 Jul 21, 19:32:16A suggestion for gamification could be a method to verify protesters who turned up (some kind of scanner app). On turning up, a badge is attached to their forum profile. The main issue is that there is no centralized place to organize. This needs to change, and fast.
#99
Vaccine Coercion / Re: Chinese practices in Austr...
Last post by gonzo - 16 Jul 21, 19:27:35One way to generate libertarians is to force regular people to do things they're not comfortable with. I guess this goes into vaccinations more, but what do we really need here in Australia to turn things around? Maybe this issue, and that of lockdowns.. can bring enough people together to counter the rest.
Take the last week for example. There have been significant protests in Sydney and Melbourne (and around the world). You may have seen videos of this on Telegram, but I have not seen these videos on mainstream media (granted I don't pay much attention to MSM). If it is true that these protests aren't being covered by the media, the reason for this is obvious. As much as an individual may feel outraged, if they do not know that others are also outraged, they are less likely to protest. The greatest threat to tyranny is the people united against it.
So.. right now, we are blocked from forming groups on social media. We are spread out thin among multiple alternative platforms. What we need is a place to gather, with the place/forum partitioned by state. It needs to be impossible to take down. They've taken down frontlinedoctors website, for example. Once this place (let's call it the Tower of Babel - or this site?) is set up, we need to go out to all platforms with one message. "If you have a problem with vaccine coercion, endless lockdowns and an increasingly tyrannical government, go to......". As part of the signing up process, it must be stated that the sole reason for the site is to gather all like-minded people together so that we can protest en masse. That for now, the only mission is to gather more people. When a certain threshold is reached, then the protests start. For example, if we can guarantee at least 10,000 people will turn up and are committed, then the protest is set for two weeks time. As a member, when the time comes each member must commit to peaceful protest in the states capital. No "I've got work". This only works if we work together. A protest isn't worth going to if there's only a few hundred people attending.
A platform needs to be set up for mass protest... it could even be gamified to a certain extent to encourage people. That latest government petition got at least 300,000 votes... the people are out there. I imagine far far more.
If the rules of the forum are similar to say, fight club, in that, membership is to be taken fucking seriously, and it's the duty of each member to continuously seek out people will to protest against this BS (and have them too join), then before long, you've got a movement that can really start to gain some traction.
So the message needs to be simple. The rules and point of the forum needs to be very simple. There needs to be a way to guarantee that when the time comes, members will show up to protest.
Take the last week for example. There have been significant protests in Sydney and Melbourne (and around the world). You may have seen videos of this on Telegram, but I have not seen these videos on mainstream media (granted I don't pay much attention to MSM). If it is true that these protests aren't being covered by the media, the reason for this is obvious. As much as an individual may feel outraged, if they do not know that others are also outraged, they are less likely to protest. The greatest threat to tyranny is the people united against it.
So.. right now, we are blocked from forming groups on social media. We are spread out thin among multiple alternative platforms. What we need is a place to gather, with the place/forum partitioned by state. It needs to be impossible to take down. They've taken down frontlinedoctors website, for example. Once this place (let's call it the Tower of Babel - or this site?) is set up, we need to go out to all platforms with one message. "If you have a problem with vaccine coercion, endless lockdowns and an increasingly tyrannical government, go to......". As part of the signing up process, it must be stated that the sole reason for the site is to gather all like-minded people together so that we can protest en masse. That for now, the only mission is to gather more people. When a certain threshold is reached, then the protests start. For example, if we can guarantee at least 10,000 people will turn up and are committed, then the protest is set for two weeks time. As a member, when the time comes each member must commit to peaceful protest in the states capital. No "I've got work". This only works if we work together. A protest isn't worth going to if there's only a few hundred people attending.
A platform needs to be set up for mass protest... it could even be gamified to a certain extent to encourage people. That latest government petition got at least 300,000 votes... the people are out there. I imagine far far more.
If the rules of the forum are similar to say, fight club, in that, membership is to be taken fucking seriously, and it's the duty of each member to continuously seek out people will to protest against this BS (and have them too join), then before long, you've got a movement that can really start to gain some traction.
So the message needs to be simple. The rules and point of the forum needs to be very simple. There needs to be a way to guarantee that when the time comes, members will show up to protest.
#100
Vaccine Coercion / Re: Chinese practices in Austr...
Last post by Excogitatoris - 14 Jul 21, 20:37:11I agree, but we shouldn't let it run it's course. It is time that libertarians take a more assertive approach to counter cancel culture and the 'science' fallacy. In a country with a 2 party system, when both main parties kowtow to a media elite narrative, how do you re-introduce common sense? Is this worth setting up a separate board to discuss this?